With that as background, let me say that I find Bishop Spong a refreshing presence in my Christian experience. There are divisions in the Christian Church such as I have not experienced in my lifetime. Believers such as John Spong, Thomas Merton, and C;larence Jordon offer hope that strong individuals can bring divided Christians together under one creative power whom I hope all men of good will shall acknowledge before I climb my last hill.

Other than that, I pretty much agree with your sermon. Not sure why I should no longer be a Christian for agreeing with you though.

In the first place, it is the church and the world that constantly debate over who or what is a Christian and who or what is not. Jesus himself never said one word about being a Christian or Christianity. And when he did talk about what it meant to be one of his followers, his criteria seemed to be much more based upon works and lifestyle than upon specific beliefs or doctrines. So, on a certain level, whether one is a Christian or not is irrelevant. Following Jesus seems to be more about character than about dogma.

Secondly, even self-professing Christians don’t follow all the teachings of Jesus, despite Jesus’ admonition in Matthew 28 that his disciples should be taught to obey everything he had said. For instance, Christians don’t hate father and mother, sell everything they have and give the money to the poor, leave their families, heal the sick, raise the dead, or do greater things than Jesus himself did. So it is odd that “Bible believers” who insist that they know exactly what the qualifications are for being a Christian and what the rules are for Christian living can condemn homosexuality (which Jesus never talked about) while ignoring Jesus’ teachings themselves.

I think that the truth of the matter is that when it comes to religion or Christianity, we all cherry-pick which parts of our religion we are going to incorporate into our worldview. COnservatives do it. Liberals do it (they ignor Jesus’ teachings on hell, for instance). As a child, I was taught to eat everything on my plate. As an adult, I have the freedom and the responsibility to be more discerning.

Jack gives good reasons for why, despite his heresy, he still considers himself to be a Christian. That’s his choice. I like and incorporate alot of Jesus’ teachings into my own life, but I no longer call myself a Christian because 1) Jesus never talked about it 2) there is no standard definition and 3) I think the label is ultimately meaningless if there is no change in character. From everything I’ve read and heard of Spong, he is a good man, a man of good character who genuinely loves people, even those who would call him a heretic. I could care less what people call him (or what they call me). If Jesus was anywhere right, it is the heart that matters.

Byron, being a Unitarian Universalist is working out better than I had ever dreamed. I find myself retaining those parts of the Christian, and even the Nazarene, tradition which seemed most important to me. Jesus’ social witness for unconditional love, for example, and the Nazarenes’ traditional (though waning) stress on helping the poor. Unitarian Universalism, in which there is great diversity of thought and belief, feels more like the real world.

Thanks to both of you for stopping by.

Bryon McLaughlin

What I found is that most of them just plain don’t like gays, they find them disgusting and perverted, and can’t give you a real reason why. They like to point to the bible, but will not answer any questions about that, e.g., why do they get to pick and choose which laws from Leviticus to follow while denying that right to others”.

Truly, they are not interested in any sort of “civil union” compromise. They strenuously avoid any evidence that contradicts their point of view. They will have to simply be bulldozed with civil rights legislation, as many people who have opposed it in the past have been. Sorry for the long post, BTW.